Honest to Pete until this very discussion I thought that this was just the way that decent people behave. I hope you are right about this. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations.. And whos surprised? Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? Dee, is Julie a new commenter here? Some years ago on a dictionary of internet slang, Christian Side Hug was a term for non-genital sex intended to preserve technical virginity. The solution? after the perps death before she told anyone. Because your mind tells you this particular man YOU KNOW would never so you must be misjudging. This story involved a fourteen-year sexual affair. And if it gets really bad the staunch hybels factions may end up being ousted. I actually thought it was funny. Should I be worried? Good Lord! But I can certainly tell when a guy does it to cop a feel. I believed, everyone believed, that he was one of the good guys, committed to fighting for womens rights, committed to our marriage, and to the women he worked with. You are right, the whole situation smells of cover-up. That ambien thing sounds like plausible deniability, doesnt it? . Unless, of course, its useful as an excuse I dont fault them for that, but its what happens. Where I work we are required to use the company secure email system if sending high or moderate risk information (e.g., social security numbers, credit card numbers, student records, health information). I highly recommend it, as well as his book, I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband, When I got to his room, Bill had wine opened and waiting. This is a serious question we all need to ask ourselves about our own churches. Lavery wrote in his initial 2019 email that he hoped Menlos leadership would conduct a robust, thorough inquiry into the matter. Some until their death beds. Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. From 1985 to 1990 he served as senior pastor at Simi Valley Community Church, and then from 1990 to . Buy my books, listen to my sermons, attend my conferences! I got a chuckle out of your comment to Brad. Ortberg. @ Law Prof: He missed an important element in his effort at damage control: Preach it straight from the beginning. Actually, hugging creates a release of oxytocin (also known as the cuddle hormone) in the human body, which can artificially create a sense of trust and closeness. Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priests servant, cutting off his right ear. @ truthseeker00: Kudos to these two publishers. Bills own admission appears to have been made at a meeting with certain Elders and Willow Creek Association Board members. There is no fixing a broken system. My team of outsourced profs, quality tech people saw it, too. Lets pretend we know what we are doing., When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time. Maya Angelou. I appreciate every single bit of it. Be an individual. Combined with Johnnys dislike of Laverys trans nature, Daddys statement combines with the picture to tell us the story of an entire family mired in dysfunction and misplaced priorities. The whole system is built and maintained to allow this. The Willow Creek board apparently presented a report saying there was no evidence to support the Bill Hybills allegations? not for this long. A few years ago, I posted The Aurora byTerjeSorgjerd. Its hard to tell what I havent read. This leads those who might otherwise speak up about inappropriate behavior to not cast the first stone. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg. At this same meeting, Bill was asked about his special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on a frequent and regular basis. I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions, Only in Christianese One-Upmanship My Piles Bigger Than Yours!. After all that Nancy Ortberg said, I would hate for her husband to have behaved like that, even if it isnt as bad as what Bill Hybels has done. Really? Bob Smietana March 22 . This is an ECO Presbyterian church with over 4000 members. He was born on May 5, 1957, in Rockford, Illinois, the United States of America. No, the flesh made them do it! Lengthy quotes rarely get read and can be annoying. Brad Brucker: Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? @ brad/futuristguy: I get it bothers you. John Ortberg Family Who are His Parents? But I have not noticed any hugging at the hospital or at any doctors or dentists office. You get a time out. You watch a kid in a souped up car on the highway darting in and out at excessive speeds and say I hope he gets picked up.. All so sad! She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. April 13, 2018. @ ishy: You forgot naked swimming, shower on the boat, and deleted emails. The question is this: if Jesus came to visit your church, would he jump for joy and say, Yes! I hope that you are correct that what was stated by Jodi Walle is not true. Its ridiculous. How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The commenting system is from ViaFora, ", "SO much great content here accumulated over the years", John Ortberg: The Scandal That Just Keeps Getting Worse. Willow Creek is worldly like most churches. Hooray for David. Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. That is a huge red flag. Lavery said he did not want to name his brother but ultimately felt he had no choice. I not only strongly agree, I tend to look back at the whole Church movement, and see a change that began with you guessed it Bill Hybels and Willow Creek. Status? Same for Donald Trump now.). Not my thing. I mean, most say they want the truth. Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. [26], On July 29, 2020, Menlo Church announced that Ortberg had resigned from his position, effective August 2, 2020, citing broken trust and fallout from the poor judgement in decisions he had made in allowing his son to continue to volunteer with students after his confession of an attraction to minors. Plus overtones of the old attorneys way to defend against a rape charge: Discredit the Victim making the accusation. If interested, I posted more material, links, analysis, and some leads to Dan Brennans thoughts on anxious egalitarianism, on this article: https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2018/04/12/some-thoughts-on-supposedly-feminist-men-who-reportedly-abuse-harass-women/. As we got up to leave at the end of the evening Bill said to me in front of the group, Nancy why dont you stay for a couple of minutes for us to discuss your ministry work? I immediately looked at the others for how I should respond and one of them smiled and said, Okay, see you in the morning.. Not one. Remember all those times we hung out together and nothing happened? Exactly. This was shortly after a truly awful Christianese Youth Group rap number (GANGSTAAAAAA!!!! Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? Thanks, Julie! Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Its about truth, loving others, the actual fruits of the Spirit, obedience to the Lord. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. Please bear with me. At which she would perhaps be really smart to think that she could handle it herself without causing trouble in her marriage. Cliffe co-founded the Toast, a now-dormant but beloved blog, with Lavery. This is just how we do; I dont know. I was contemplating a megachurch model the other day where teaching pastors had term limits or rotating speakers. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. Once again, that is left in the capable Hands of our Father. @ AbuseCrusher: Today, lets examine John Ortbergs scandal and see what it tells us about that end of Christianity. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in Scripture. July 29, 2020. You were a vulnerable target (especially with children) Very valuable comment. On the other hand, the youngest son John III, AKA Johnny was born around 1990. We only hear about the ones dumb enough to slip up and get caught! The only thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known. Certainly if Jodie is on staff currently, she needs her walking papers today! This is only the tip of the iceberg. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in ScriptureDo not be the disciple with the sword. He later made a return to the pulpit on March 7, 2020. AFAIK they havent yet made any corrections or denials. why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? Some group members believe it is safe, even healing, for people with this attraction to work with children. 20 years ago, Switchfoot unleashed the riff that changed Christian rock, LAs Atheist Street Pirates go national in efforts to remove illegal religious signs, 60 years on, Kings Letter from Birmingham Jail relevant as ever, say faith leaders, Yes, Virginia, the Constitution does separate church and state. Its not healthy for Johnny.. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from Fuller Theological Seminary. I really liked your comment. Willow Creek was promoted by Hybels as a model for all of christendom, Look at me, I have the answers. At times it became oppressive for those churches that were told to tear up their foundations and follow The Model. But Moses said to the LORD, Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue. 11 Then the LORD said to him, Who has made mans mouth? These things seem like nitpicking until you have more information. That was 25 years ago. Then Ortberg, a popular speaker and evangelical leader who played a key role in drawing public attention to allegations of misconduct against Bill Hybels, the legendary founder of Willow Creek, returned to the pulpit and the church hoped to move on. I would like people to know that Danny sacrificed everything, she said. Maybe Im misinterpreting. And few of us agree on every point! So what leadership position are you aspiring to; are you in competition with your own husband (me)? [8] In October 2021, the third-party organization Zero Abuse Project completed an investigation into the matter after interviewing 104 witnesses and reviewing or analyzing more than 500,000 documents. We made sure I would not be placed in a situation like that again. And actually, it was the Holy Spirit that empowered Peter to be so bold that made it happen. Your man-made system may not have won, but the winner here may be the truth, you know. They are fighting for Hybels. That length is reserved for the husband/wife relationship, comforting someone, or greeting someone close whom you havent seen in a long time. @ dee: When youre the victim of something creepy, such as abuse, suggestive sexual behavior or private narcissistic rage or whatever ugly thing from a pastor who holds himself up as a paragon of virtue, people often feel embarrassed at having been involved in it, even if they had nothing to do with the wrongful actions. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. Are you aware, Mr. Brucker, that you are essentially playing with a full house or a straight flush in the rationalization department? So he moved to protect himself and his position. I dont understand the purpose!!!!! My working hypothesis is that any man intent on seduction of women through grooming them for emotional intimacy and/or sexual involvement will sow in whatever field hes in and will also create or develop the platform that makes it possible to keep the flow of victims going. With the way some are acting, they mimic Hybels anger and vindictiveness rather than Christ. I remember a similar excuse well stated by Flip Wilson The devil made me do it., No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ, I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ.*. If nothing else, I hope Christians start noticing that truth and maybe wondering why Jesus isnt helping protectthe least of us right in his own flocks churches. She uses grooming quite cleverly. Haha, aint gonna happen. He stopped returning my texts. @ truthseeker00: After all, there were so many good things that had been done and so many accolades given. This is VERY common. People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. Thanks, all! Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Parallel universe I suppose; different set of rules most likely. These are tools, and can be applied to any agenda just change the talking points. Its YOUR money they use. 3434 pant, right? Good grief, until this minute I had no idea there was such a thing as a hug culture. Why is it people cannot just go to work,college, etc, without the social safety net of artificial group belonging? He had been volunteering at Menlo Church as a youth leader and coach until about 2020. I think so too. Currently, he hosts a podcast on Slate called Big Mood, Little Mood, and writes a paid e-mail newsletter, the Shatner Chatner on Substack as well. No amount of marketing spin can change the fact that if these allegations are true, and they now appear quite credible, that you were following a fraudand quite naturally, are now acting like one yourself. Does this have any bearing on whether or not Bill Hybels was a sociopath, an abuser, a phony, a hypocrite, a philanderer? Maybe Creekers should rethink that. But what does that have to do with her testimony? Its not. But, I seriously doubt your using scripture as a club will shame, convince or condemn many here. Ah, the broad-brush accusation of slamming the Church when actions of their leadership are called into question. He said his brother has also insisted that he has never harmed anyone. 1 kiss Nancy Ortberg Claims She Endured an Unwanted - The Wartburg Watch What shes done more than anything is reveal that Willow Creek had/has a culture and work environment that is not guided or governed by wise, common-sense policies or practices for accountabilityespecially when it came to male-female relationships. Read the Bible. Missionary Man Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? This includes a majority Christian circle. John Ortberg Resigns. Why I Feel Compassion for This Family: Lord Have